Ch12 - p38


April 19, 2017, at 12:00 AM

I gotta side with Quigley on this one.
35 Comments

Comments

  1. OK, is the tankwoman dead or not? Is Uaid reading her memories? Again, this is pyreflies by any other name. Get a Summoner in here to perform a Sending. Leaving the Unsent in Spira...I mean, Kasslyne, is no good - they turn into fiends most of the time. Their place is in the Farplane...I mean, the khert, of course. Anyway, khert, Lifestream, Farplane, Happy Hunting Ground - are all one and the same.
    Mad'Monster'Maniac on
  2. lol @ Duane telling someone off for being too ready to believe their government's propaganda
    Elizur on
  3. Sounds like Uaid and Sette both know about Best Worlds...
    Kathy on
  4. Wow. No wonder Quigley doesn't believe Duane is a real person, just a construct on par with or better than Uaid. What a sad page :( amazing as always in art and script.
    Imany on
  5. I'm a bit confused. Is it that Uaid's memories cause bad things in reality to be more shocking, or is it something else?
    Himself on
  6. Oh Duane. Hopefully you will open up to the fact that your home is not without its faults.
    wyzwon on
  7. I'm a little confused by Quigley's statement - it reads more like it's a response to Jivi's and Duane's argument than it is to Matty's question.
    Nicosar on
  8. @Himself I believe Uaid is remembering one of his memories from the khert, where a loved one turned out not to be dead, only injured. Because of that, he's hoping the dead soldier will wake up - explaining why he's so upset/shocked.
    ellen on
  9. @MMM It's Pleroma!
    anon on
  10. @wyzwon odder still that Duane was on the receiving end of his homeland's faults at many points in his life. I suppose he just hates Cresce that much.
    VP on
  11. @MMM - not quite one and the same. The Khert can be mined as a resource. "Grandpa's gone to the great beyond and all his happy memories of you little ones will last forever ... unless someone needs them to make a giant walking tank, then they'll be ripped out and processed."
    BiggusGeekus on
  12. I took it more as Uaid is picturing a world in which the soldier wakes up hurt but alive to his family because that is what happens in the world as he knows it--a world where happy endings are realer than brutal realities. Sorry, Uaid :(
    Roo on
  13. Statecraft is deception and violence. Being a superpower means being the most deceptive and violent. The delusion of multilaterally recognised victimhood is a luxury afforded only to the underdog. Even the Quigleys of our world are normally drinking someone else's Kool Aid: obsessing over peak oil, chemtrails, or Leon Trotsky. Porpentine says this thing I like: 'ideology is a sick fetish'. Quigley makes a lot of bad decisions, but he has unique political acuity.
    Spen Cyrrh on
  14. Absolutely, Spen. He sees Matty instinctively looking for a sane explanation that will excuse all these senseless corpses, and wants to nip that right in the bud. There is no excuse, and he believes trying to find one threatens to make you an ideologue, either to Alderode or Cresce. Quigley rejects all of it, even his late wife's lofty revolutionary ideals. He believes in Nothing, but Nothing is a hard sell to a philosophically needy eight year old.
    Ashley on
  15. @BiggusGeekus: "not quite one and the same. The Khert can be mined as a resource."

    So can Farplane and Lifestream.
    Just ask Shinra. Which Shinra? Actually, any one of them!
    The failed attempt of Shinra the boy genius matured over time into Mako reactors of Shinra Electric Power Company.
    At least Square Enix says so.
    So yes, they are one and the same.
    Mad'Monster'Maniac on
  16. @Spen Cyrrh: "ideology is a sick fetish"

    No, it is a useful tool of power. Just observe some precautions and safety rules with TOOLS of POWER, like you need to observe precautions and safety rules with POWER TOOLS.
    And the prime rule of ideology - do NOT believe your own!
    Indeed, ideology is puppet strings.
    Who does a ruler want to be - a puppet or a puppeteer?

    @Ashley: "Quigley rejects all of it, even his late wife's lofty revolutionary ideals. He believes in Nothing, but Nothing is a hard sell"

    Please allow me to express my deepest gratitude for confirming what I have long suspected:
    Mathis Quigley is a howling nihilist!
    Your former idol Sephiroth sends his greetings.
    So do Kefka Palazzo and Seymour Guado.
    Mad'Monster'Maniac on
  17. Except nihilism doesn't allow for anything to need excusing in the first place, no? "Nothing excuses this" is surely more Kantian than nihilistic?
    Luke on
  18. I am with Luke. A Cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. See also what happened to a certain house of ill-repute recently. Duane understands his land's faults, but he also knows it is the only thing keeping his co-religionists from genocide or the slavery Passover commemorated, which rapidly becomes the death of a people even without the whole slaughter of the first-born bit. Remember what Duane actually knows 1st and less importantly - the sordidness of his political and even educational establishments, but also the decency of his (mostly slaughtered) family. The cynical black-tongue who murdered him and his child is in league with Crescian assassins, remember? 2nd and more importantly - he knows mass slaughter of innocents is coming if he cannot stop it.
    Honzinator on
  19. @Honzinator: "The cynical black-tongue who murdered him and his child is in league with Crescian assassins, remember?"

    No proof the assassination was correctly attributed. For all that we know, it could be a false-flag attack by parties unknown.
    Mad'Monster'Maniac on
  20. @Honzinator: "See also what happened to a certain house of ill-repute recently."

    Was what happened a good thing or a bad thing?
    Mad'Monster'Maniac on
  21. @Luke: ""Nothing excuses this" is surely more Kantian than nihilistic?"

    "Quigley ... believes in Nothing"
    ((C) Ashley, on April 19, 2017, at 10:01 AM, see above)
    "Nihil" means "Nothing". "Nihilist" is someone who believes in "Nothing".
    Therefore, Mathis Quigley is a nihilist, if Ashley is to be believed.
    And we BETTER believe her!

    ...And if you are looking for a walking, talking Kantian categorical imperative, look no further than Rector Duane Adelier.
    Mad'Monster'Maniac on
  22. Problem with nihilism is that it basically results in just rolling over and letting death take over. As bad as this fantasy world is ( and yeah its pretty terrible ), there needs to be some kind of ideal to reach for. The governments of Alderode and Cresce are pretty rigid, but I think with some work, if someone ( say, a lion-tailed monotreme ) was able to unite most of Sharteshane, the end result may just wind up dominating the world. But first off, loot the dang bodies already!
    Cuban_Pete on
  23. That's how they did Holy Wars in real life. In both senses.

    @Elizur: indeed ^ ^
    Jenny on
  24. So, when Matty says that Uaid 'remembers' he means that Uaid is 'imagining' or 'being caught in illusion'.

    I wonder what is the source of that Uaid's understanding of the world. Is that 'broken recognition' happens from his inability to grasp things that Matty's mom decided to rule out as unsightly from her point of view... Or did it happen because he is vulnerable to death and loss and is using Denial mechanism to protect himself from trauma (Sette-style self-lying)?

    Anyways that's Ashley's world, so even if Uaid is made of Best Memories doesn't mean that he'll be spared from bad things of this world. I wonder what's his reaction would be if/when Matty is dead/or graverly injured and needs real medical attention and help, not fantasies.
    Jenny on
  25. I thought Ashley was talking about Quigley rejecting the use of high-level ideologies to justify the reprehensible. I'm not sure she meant that Quigley doesn't adhere to any base principles at all.

    Having said that, I do think it's hypocritical of him to say "nothing excuses this" about the battle given that he obliterated some Crescian peasants' heads when trying to reach Toma in the construct bay. It's possible that Quigley truly doesn't give one rip about the war except insofar as it inconveniences him directly, and he's really only concerned about Matty's exposure to what he considers dangerous ideologies.
    Luke on
  26. Duane, please shut up forever.
    Flimflamberge on
  27. @Cuban_Pete: "if someone (say, a lion-tailed monotreme) was able to unite most of Sharteshane, the end result may just wind up dominating the world."

    This is absolutely correct. Ashley explicitly stated exactly that long ago. As well as the fact that BOTH Alderode and Cresce are very much afraid of such turn of events. Just like Great Britain, Sharteshane is the preeminent maritime power of Kasslyne. But due to weakness of the central power - the King - Sharteshane have not so far established its command of the sea.

    "someone (say, a lion-tailed monotreme"

    The Virgin Queen!
    Sette can become Elizabeth I of Sharteshane - the "Good Queen Sette".

    Rule Sharteshane!
    Sharteshane rule the waves.
    Shartes never, never, never shall be slaves.
    Mad'Monster'Maniac on
  28. @Cuban_Pete: "As bad as this fantasy world is ( and yeah its pretty terrible ), there needs to be some kind of ideal to reach for."

    You hit the nail on the head - there NEEDS to be, but there CANNOT be! What makes Kasslyne a Crapsack World is not its wretched present condition - for Ssael's sake, Earth has seen its share of depravity - but Kasslyne is a special kind of bad: it cannot improve. There are no ways it can. Most of the land is taken over by cannibals who sacrifice their own species to gods. Yes, there were civilizations on Earth that stuck with the primitive tribal practices of routine human sacrifice, but they never discovered either wheel or iron, an eventually failed one way or another. There is no stigma associated with debauchery and deviancy - when Rome degenerated to such state of affairs, its end was near. The likes of Bodie and Gen.Bell manage to achieve positions of power with nobody to stop them. And so on. The point is, Kasslynite history goes in circles, unlike that of Earth, where it goes in an ever rising spiral.
    Mad'Monster'Maniac on
  29. Quigley gets more and more mysterious to me as this comic progresses. Such a complex guy. It's good that he teaches his son that you can't justify this brutality and horror, but at the same time, the question was clearly asked not in the interests of justifying it, but to know the why of it so that one can figure out the how to put an end to it! If you avoid the topic entirely, can't solve anything.
    mythee on
  30. But Earth history's rising spiral was really slow to rise, we went through a lot of low circles millennia before. But you might still be right, not regarding both worlds's histories, but the existence of the Khert: this stuff puts an order to Kasslyne, so unlike Earth there's a mechanism that constraints randomness and keeps things in line. In a way, Ssaelism seems to have a philosophy of revolt against this state of reality, since to their belief everyone's circles of life are to make them rise higher and higher until they can rejoin Ssael and break out of the circle by their own hands. Now, it seems to be just a belief, and that makes it pretty dark to me
    Mykh on
  31. @Mykh: "Ssaelism seems to have a philosophy of revolt against this state of reality, since to their belief everyone's circles of life are to make them rise higher and higher until they can rejoin Ssael and break out of the circle by their own hands. Now, it seems to be just a belief, and that makes it pretty dark to me"

    Note, that Ssaelism is endangered and is only practiced freely in Alderode, making it better than Cresce.
    Mad'Monster'Maniac on
  32. @Mykh: "it seems to be just a belief, and that makes it pretty dark to me"

    Because it IS very dark. Think of it: what improvement can be expected, if both fundamental and applied research are outlawed and research scientists are driven underground? Real world has enough examples of stagnant cultures, no matter how civilized: both imperial China and Edo era Japan are such cases. Even if Kasslyne could develop, there is no hope for outside impact, unlike with China and Japan: the British are not coming to Cresce with opium, and Americans are not sailing to Alderode in their Black Ships.
    Mad'Monster'Maniac on
  33. A bunch of primitive people, who's main occupation is tribal warfare. A lot like the human race this very second.
    Cleatus on
  34. Sorry, forgot to add, MUCH more beautiful than Terra and many of her people. (wink) Thank you Ashley
    Cleatus on
  35. @Cleatus: "A bunch of primitive people, who's main occupation is tribal warfare. A lot like the human race this very second."

    Not all of it. Only the part in Darwin's crosshairs.

    "MUCH more beautiful than Terra and many of her people."

    Please accept my commiseration. Believe it or not, there exist better neighborhoods and more attractive people than that. You will see them, if you start taking longer walks.
    Mad'Monster'Maniac on